J'abonde dans votre sens et pense aussi au lien de cette affaire avec la menace qui plane sur la laïcité. La MIVILUDES semble géner les pouvoirs publics,certains préfets exonèrent en dépit de la loi les Témoins de Jéhova des taxes d'habitation.On entend dire ici et là que les sectes ne sont pas un problème!On peut s'attendre à une application du rapport Machelon et Mme Alliot Marie me semble favorable à une refonte conjointe de la loi 1901 et 1905.
Merci pour votre vigilence
René

Cher monsieur,

Franchement, je n'ai jamais aimé vos prises de position mais là je suis impressionné.

C'est la première fois qu'un élu se prononce de façon aussi construite et réfléchie sur la question du Tibet.

Faites attention quand même à ne pas voir la main des Etats Unis derrière tout!

A part ça, oui le Dalai Lama n'a aucune légitimité démocratique et ne représente que les 50,000 privilégiés (propriétaires terriens, dignitaire de l'Eglise tibétaine...) qui l'ont suivi dans son exil.

Et surtout, il n'y a pas à avoir deux poids de mesure: liberté et démocratie pour tous les habitants de la République populaire, quel qu'ils soient! s'il y avait une vraie démocratie, les demandes indépendantistes cesseraient bien vite en même temps que l'influence du Dalai Lama sur les Tibétains...

félicitation pour ce texte dont je partage pratiquement toutes les idées (et pourtant je ne me sens pas spécialement proche de vous.) J'espère qu'il sera repris et discuté, parce que vous êtes la première voix discordante intéressant que je lis.

Je pense que le point de vue de M. Mélenchon manque pour le moins de nuances. Présenter le Dalaï-Lama comme l'adepte d'une théocratie obscurantiste alors que ce dernier est titulaire du prix Nobel de la paix, adepte de la non-violence et demande non pas l'indépendance du Tibet mais une simple autonomie visant à préserver la culture tibétaine, me paraît pour le moins excessif. En outre, je veux croire que M. Mélenchon, dans la continuité de ses engagements antérieurs, est favorable à la reconnaissance des droits démocratiques du peuple chinois, dont font partie les tibétains.

@Tartarin => Les bretons sont-ils passibles de prison quand ils décident de se réunir pour communiquer dans le sémillant patois primitif qu'ils considèrent comme leur "langue" ? Non. L'Etat français empêche-t-il les comiques à barbe et pull marin de constituer des groupuscules indépendantistes ? Non. Les bretons sont-ils entravés dans leur circulation sur le territoire français ? Non. Peut-on librement acheter un disque d'Alan Stivell ou Dan Ar Braz ? Hélas oui.
Par ailleurs, j'ai mentionné la position du PCF sur la colonisation, pas celle de Karl Marx. Mais je note avec intérêt le propos de Pablo Arce. Si la Ligue Lombarde souhaitait la restitution de l'Ethiopie à l'Italie, je suis sûr qu'il saurait apporter tout son soutien à ce beau projet...
Les mêmes qui hurlent au génocide et à l'étranglement d'un peuple quand il s'agit de la Cisjordanie sont tout à coup incroyablement mesurés dans leurs propos dès qu'il est question de la Chine. Ahurissant et consternant.
Chapeau bas à Ménard pour son courage et sa constance (rappelons qu'il ne milite, au-delà de la question tibétaine, pour le respect des droits de l'homme en Chine, et notamment pour la liberté d'information) et bonne chance à nos amis de San Francisco : allez les gars, il faut faire mieux qu'à Paris !

J'ai écouté votre intervention ce matin sur Europe 1. Je ne partage personnellement pas vos opinions sur énormément de sujet, mais votre travail pour une diversité d'opinion est louable. J'applaudis donc des deux mains !

Votre intervention avec Elkabbach m'a interpellé ce matin.
Tout en vous écoutant, j'appréciais la justesse et la pertinence de vos propos.
Je suis malheureusement (pour le PS) un souteneur inconditionnel et libéral de Nicolas Sarkozy. Je ne voterai donc pas pour vous.
Malgré tout, votre analyse est pointue et vos arguments parfaitement avérés.

Ma conviction de démocrate est confortée par le fait de constater, au PS, un tel degré de réflexion.

Claude Saillard
sarkosiste

Bonjour,
Félicitation pour votre interview avec Jean-Pierre Elkabach je suis tout à fait de votre avis en ce qui concerne les J-O entre la Chine et le Tibet.

Ce petit monde lisse et polis nous saoul.
Pour une voix aux prochaines elections comptez sur moi.

Cordialement

Monsieur,

Vous n'êtes probablement pas un communiste cubain non plus mais vous trouverez ci-dessous l'avis de Fidel Castro sur ce même sujet.

Merci pour votre action qui nous aide à y voir plus clair dans toutes ces infomations made in CIA !

Cdlt,

Romain

Cuba, Reflections by Comrade Fidel (Part I and II)
-------------------------------------------------
From: Embassy of Cuba in Greece, Thursday, April 03, 2008
==================================================

Reflections by Comrade Fidel

The Chinese Victory
(Part I)

Without some basic historical knowledge, the subject I am dealing with
would not be understood.

In Europe, people had heard about China. In the autumn of 1298, Marco
Polo told marvelous tales about an amazing country he called Cathay.
Columbus, an intelligent and intrepid sailor, was aware of the
Greeks’
knowledge about the roundness of the Earth. His own observations led
him
to coincide with those theories. He came up with the plan of reaching
the Far East sailing westward from Europe. But, he calculated the
distance with far too much optimism, for it was several times greater.
Unexpectedly, between the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans, this
continent loomed up on his route. Magellan would make the journey
conceived by him, even though he died before reaching Europe. Still,
the
voyage was paid with the value of the spices gathered, and the trip
begun with several vessels, out of which only one returned, was a
prelude of future colossal profits.

Since those days, the world began to change at an accelerated pace. Old
forms of exploitation were repeated again, from slavery to feudal
serfdom; ancient and new religious beliefs spread over the planet.

>From that fusion of cultures and events, accompanied by technical
advances and scientific discoveries, today’s world was born, and it
could not be understood without a minimum of real precedents.

International trade, with its advantages and disadvantages, was imposed
by the colonial powers, such as Spain, England and the other European
powers. These, especially England, soon began to control southwest,
south and southeast Asia, and Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand,
forcibly expanding its rule everywhere. The colonizers were not able to
impose their authority over the gigantic country of China, which had an
ancient culture and fabulous natural and human resources.

Direct trade between Europe and China began in the sixteenth century,
after the Portuguese established the commercial enclave at Goa in India
and at Macao in southern China.

Spanish control in the Philippines facilitated an accelerated exchange
with the great Asian country. The Qin dynasty, which ruled China, tried
to limit this kind of unfavorable commercial operation with foreign
countries as much as possible. It was allowed only through the port of
Canton, today called Guangzhou. Great Britain and Spain had great
deficits because of the low demand of the enormous Asiatic country,
related to English goods manufactured in the metropolis, or Spanish
products coming from the New World which were not essential to China.
Both of them had begun to sell opium.

Large-scale opium trade was at first dominated by the Dutch through
Jakarta, Indonesia. The English observed the profits that were close to
400 percent. Their opium exports which, in 1730, were 15 tons, grew to
75 in 1773, shipped in crates weighing 70 kilograms each; with this
they
bought porcelain, silks, spices and Chinese tea. Opium, not gold, was
the currency Europe used to acquire Chinese goods.

In the spring of 1830, faced with the unbridled abuse of the opium
trade
in China, Emperor Daoguang ordered Lin Hse Tsu, an Imperial official,
to
fight the plague; he ordered the destruction of 20 thousand crates of
opium. Lin Hse Tsu sent a letter to Queen Victoria asking for respect
of
international standards and that she forbid the trade with toxic drugs.

The Opium Wars were the English response. The first of them lasted
three
years, from 1839 to 1842. The second, with France joining in, lasted
four years, from 1856 to 1860. They are also known as the Anglo-Chinese
Wars.

The United Kingdom forced China to sign unfair treaties committing this
country to opening up several ports to foreign trade and handing over
Hong Kong. Several countries, following England’s lead, imposed
unequal
terms of exchange.

Such humiliation contributed to the Taiping Rebellion of 1850 to 1864,
the Boxer Rebellion of 1899 to 1901 and, finally, the fall of the Qin
Dynasty in 1911 that, for various reasons –including their weakness
in
the face of foreign powers– had become highly unpopular in China.

What happened with Japan?

This country with its ancient culture and very hard-working ethic, like
others in the region, resisted “western civilization” and for more
than
200 years –among other causes because of a chaotic domestic
administration– it remained hermetically sealed to foreign trade.

In 1854, after an earlier exploratory voyage with four gunboats, a U.S.
naval expedition commanded by Commodore Matthew Perry, threatening to
bomb a Japanese town – defenseless before the modern technology of
those
vessels– obliged the shoguns to sign, on behalf of the Emperor, the
Treaty of Kanagawa on March 31, 1854. Thus, the insertion of capitalist
trade and western technology was begun in Japan. At the time, Europeans
were unaware of the Japanese capacity to develop in that field.

On the heels of the Yankees, representatives of the Russian Empire
arrived from the Far East, fearful that the U.S., to whom they later
sold Alaska on October 18, 1867, would get a head-start on them in the
trade activities with Japan. Great Britain and the other European
colonizing nations arrived quickly in the country, with the same
intentions.

During the U.S. intervention in 1862, Perry occupied different parts of
Mexico. At the end of the war, the country lost more than 50 percent of
its territory, precisely those areas where the greatest oil and gas
reserves were to be found, even though at that time, gold and land to
expand into, not fuel, were the main goals of the conquerors.

The first China-Japan War was officially declared on August 1, 1894. At
the time Japan wanted Korea, a tributary state subordinated to China.
With more developed weaponry and technology, it defeated Chinese forces
in several battles near the cities of Seoul and Pyongyang. Later
military victories opened their way towards Chinese territory.

In the month of November in that year, they took Port Arthur, today
Lüshun. In the River Yalu estuary and at the Weihaiwei Naval Base,
surprised by a land attack from the Liaodong Peninsula, heavy Japanese
artillery destroyed the fleet of the attacked nation.

The dynasty had to ask for peace. The Treaty of Shimonoseki, which put
an end to the war, was signed in April of 1895. China was forced to
cede
Taiwan, the Liaodong Peninsula and the archipelago of the Pescadores
Islands to Japan “in perpetuity”; China also had to pay a war
indemnity
of 200 million taels of silver and open up four ports to the exterior.
Russia, France and Germany, defending their individual interests,
obliged Japan to return the Liaodong Peninsula, paying in exchange
another 30 million taels of silver.

Before mentioning the second China-Japan War, I should include another
armed episode with a double historical importance; it took place
between
1904 and 1905 and it cannot be omitted.

After being inserted into armed civilization and wars for the
partitioning of the world as imposed by the West, Japan, which had
already waged the first war against China as mentioned above, developed
its naval power to such a degree that it was able to deal a harsh blow
to the Russian Empire which was at the point of prematurely inciting
the
revolution programmed by Lenin when he created in Minsk, ten years
prior, the Party which would later unleash the October Revolution.

On August 10, 1904, with no advance warning, Japan attacked and
destroyed the Russian Pacific Fleet at Shandong. Czar Nicholas II of
Russia, upset by the attack, ordered the Baltic Fleet to be mobilized
and to set sail for the Far East. Convoys of colliers were contracted
to
bring in the shipments needed by the fleet while it was sailing towards
its distant destination. One of the operations to transfer coal had to
be carried out on the high seas due to diplomatic pressures.

The Russians, upon entering south China, sailed towards Vladivostok,
the
only available port for the fleet’s operations. In order to arrive at
that point, there were three routes: the best choice was the Tsushima
route; the other two required navigation to the east of Japan and
increased the risks and the enormous wear and tear on the vessels and
crews. The Japanese admiral had the same thought: for this option he
prepared his plan and located his ships so that the Japanese Fleet,
after making a U-turn, would have all its vessels, mainly cruisers,
passing about 6 thousand meters away from the adversary’s ships, a
large
number of battleships. These would be at the reach of the Japanese
cruisers, outfitted with personnel that were rigorously trained in the
use of their cannon. As a result of the lengthy route, the Russian
battleships were navigating at a speed of only 8 knots as compared with
the 16 knot speed of the Japanese vessels.

The military action is known by the name of Battle of Tsushima. It took
place on May 27th and 28th of 1905.

On the side of the Russian Empire, 11 battleships and 8 cruisers took
part.

Admiral of the Fleet: Zinovy Rozhdestvensky.
Losses: 4,380 dead, 5,917 wounded, 21 ships sunk, 7 captured and 6
rendered useless.

The Admiral of the Russian Fleet was wounded by a shell fragment that
hit him in the skull.

On the side of the Japanese Empire, 4 battleships and 27 cruisers took
part.

Admiral of the Fleet: Heichachiro Togo
Losses: 117 dead, 583 wounded and 3 torpedo ships sunk.

The Baltic Fleet was destroyed. Napoleon would have termed it
“Austerlitz at sea”. Anyone can imagine the deep wound caused by
the
dramatic event to traditional Russian pride and patriotism.

After the battle, Japan became a much feared naval power, rivaling
Great
Britain and Germany and competing with the United States.

Japan rehabilitated the concept of the battleship as the principal
weapon in the years to come. They embroiled themselves in the task of
empowering the Imperial Japanese Army. They requested and paid a
British
shipbuilder to construct a special cruiser, with the intent of later
reproducing it in their Japanese shipbuilding yards. Later, they
manufactured battleships that were much better than those of their
contemporaries, both in amour and power.

There was no other nation on the face of the earth that could come
close
to Japanese naval engineering in the 1930’s in the design of war
ships.

That explains the bold action with which, one day, they attacked their
master and rival, the United States which, through Commodore Perry,
started them off on their path of war.

I shall continue tomorrow.

Fidel Castro Ruz
March 30, 2008
7:35 p.m.
Reflections by comrade Fidel

THE CHINESE VICTORY

(Part II)

When the First World War broke out in 1914, China joined the allies. As
recompense, China was promised that the German concessions in the
province of Shandong would be returned at war's end. After the signing
of the Treaty of Versailles, which President Woodrow Wilson imposed on
friends and foes alike, the German colonies were transferred to Japan,
a
more powerful allied than China.

Thousands of students gathered in Tiananmen Square on May 4, 1919 to
protest this move. The first triumphant nationalist movement in China
was born there. Called the “May 4th Movement”, it brought the
petite and
national bourgeoisie and the workers and peasants under one coalition.

The founding of the Kuomintang or National People’s Party had
consolidated the nationalist currents that emerged at the close of the
19th and beginning of the 20th century. It was headed by Dr. Sun
Yatsen,
a progressive intellectual and revolutionary heavily influenced by the
October Revolution, with which he strengthened his party’s ties.

The Chinese Communist Party was founded at a congress held from July 23
to August 5, 1921. Lenin sent representatives of the International to
that Congress.

The Communist movement devoted efforts to reunite China. The young Mao
Zedong was among its founding members. Between 1923 and 1924, the
Chinese Communist Party and Kuomintang joined forces to form the First
United Front.

Following Sun Yatsen’s death in 1925, Chiang Kai-shek took command of
the Kuomintang. He focused on establishing firm control of southern
China, the Shanghai region in particular.

Kaishek did not sympathize with the communist doctrine and, in 1927; he
undertook a large-scale repression of communists within the National
Revolutionary Army, unions and other social institutions in the
country,
especially in Shanghai. The Left within the Kuomintang was also heavily
repressed.

In 1932, following the five-month military occupation of Manchuria,
Japan established the state of Manchukuo, which posed a great threat to
China. Chiang Kaishek launched five campaigns to besiege and eliminate
the communists, who had gathered strength in the bases set up in
southern China.

In 1927, leading those who had managed to evade Chiang Kai-shek’s
treacherous move to the mountainous region of Jiangsu and Fujian, Mao
Zedong established an encompassing center of armed resistance,
primarily
made up of devoted and well-organized communists. This center came to
be
known as the Soviet Republic of China.
In 1934, pitted against Chiang Kai-shek’s nationalist forces, which
were
vastly superior in number, nearly 100 thousand Chinese combatants under
Mao’s command undertook the Great March towards China’s northeast.
Skirting China’s central region, the combatants traversed over 3,750
miles and fought almost continually through a year. This unprecedented
feat made Mao the undisputed leader of both China's Communist Party and
Revolution. The application of Marx's and Lenin's ideas to China’s
political, economic, natural, geographic and cultural conditions
established him as the brilliant political and military strategist who
liberated a country whose significance in today’s world cannot be
underestimated.

The second Sino-Japanese War broke out on July 7, 1937. The Japanese
deliberately brought about the incident that sparked the war. A
Japanese
soldier disappeared while his troop was in a military parade at the
Marco Polo Bridge, over a river located some 10 miles west of Beijing.
China’s army, based across the river, was accused of kidnapping the
soldier, and an armed conflict which lasted several hours ensued. The
soldier reappeared, almost immediately after combat began. The
accusation was false, but the Japanese commander had already ordered
the
attack. With its usual arrogance, Tokyo made unacceptable demands from
China and ordered the deployment of three divisions, equipped with the
country’s best weapons. In a few weeks’ time, the Japanese army
secured
control of the East-West corridor between the Gulf of Chihli (today Bo
Hai) and Beijing.

>From Beijing, the Japanese army headed to Nanjing, where Chiang
Kai-shek’s government was headquartered. They carried out one of the
most horrendous of terrorist campaigns known to modern warfare. The
city
was razed to the ground, as were others. Tens of thousands of women
were
raped and hundreds of thousands of people brutally murdered.

China’s Communist Party had prioritized the struggle for national
unity
and against Japanese designs, aimed at taking control of the enormous
country and its natural resources and to condemn over 500 million of
its
citizens to merciless bondage.

Japan was looking for lebensraum. It was guided by a mixture of
capitalist and racist values: it was Japan’s version of fascism.

The Anti-Japanese United Front had already been created that same year,
in 1937. The nationalists were also aware of the danger. Japan occupied
most of the coastal cities. At the end of the Second World War, there
were millions of Chinese casualties.

During the epic war, the communists stepped up their struggle against
the invaders and caused them significant damage.

The United States aided the communists and nationalists. Sensing that
its entry into the war was imminent, it asked the Chinese government
permission to send a volunteer squadron as well. The Flying Tigers were
thus created. Roosevelt deployed Captain Lee Chenault, who was retired
at the time, whose conduct expressed his admiration towards the
discipline, tactics and efficacy shown by the communist combatants.
Following the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, the United
States
entered the war. However, at no point during the war was Japan able to
withdraw its best troops, which, near war’s end, numbered a million
soldiers.

The Truman administration, which, in an act of terror, dropped nuclear
weapons over Japan's civilian population, made Chang Kaishek the United
States'right hand man. He took up the anti-communist struggle again,
but his demoralized troops were unable to hold up against the
irrepressible advance of the Chinese People’s Army.

When the war ended in October 1949, Kuomintang members, backed by the
United States, fled to Taiwan, where they set up an anti-communist
government fully supported by the United States. Chiang Kai-shek used
the U.S. Naval Fleet to travel to Taiwan.

Might China be yet another dark corner of the world?

Before Troy was built and the Greek city-states knew the Iliad and
Odyssey, unquestionably marvelous fruits of human intelligence, a
civilization that encompassed millions of people were already taking
shape on the long shores of the Yellow River.

Chinese culture finds its roots in the Zhou Dynasty, which existed
2,000
years before Christ was born. Its peculiar writing system comprises
several thousand graphic signs, which generally represent the
language’s
words or morphemes, a term coined by modern linguistics which is little
known to the lay public. The mysterious magic of this language, which
the natural intelligence of Chinese children assimilates in the
learning
process, is beyond our grasp.

Many of the products which first emerged in China, such as gunpowder,
the compass and other inventions, were totally unknown in the Old
Continent. Had the winds blown in a direction opposite the route
followed by Columbus, perhaps the Chinese would have discovered Europe.

Since 2000, the Taiwanese government had been controlled by a party
whose neo-liberal and pro-imperialistic policies were even worse than
the Kuomintang's stances, a staunch opponent of the principle of a
unified China, the Chinese Communist Party's historical proclamation.
This thorny issue threatened to unleash a war of unforeseeable
consequences, a new sword of Damocles hanging over the heads of over
1,300 million Chinese people.

The election, this past March 23, of a candidate from the party that
provided Chiang Kaishek with his political foundations, was undoubtedly
a political and moral victory for China. It removes from the Taiwanese
government a party which, in office for nearly 8 years, was about to
take new, nefarious steps.

According to press agencies, the party lost by a landslide, securing a
mere 4.4 million votes, from a population of 17.3 million people
entitled to vote.

The new President will be sworn in on May 20. “We will sign a peace
treaty with China,” he declared.
The cables report that Ma Ying-Jeou supports the creation of a Common
Market with China, the island's main trade partner.

The People’s Republic of China maintains a dignified and cautious
attitude towards the thorny issue. At Beijing's State Council, Taiwan's
official spokesperson declared that Ma Ying-Jeou's victory proves that
“independence is not a popular issue among the Taiwanese.”

This short statement speaks volumes.

The works of prestigious U.S. historical researchers divulge what took
place in the Chinese territory of Tibet.

Kenneth Conboy’s The CIA’s Secret War in Tibet (University Press,
Kansas) describes the sordid details of the conspiracy. William Leary
calls it “an excellent and impressive study of a major CIA covert
operation during the Cold War”.

For over two centuries, no country in the world had recognized Tibet as
an independent nation. It was considered to be an integral part of
China. In 1950, India conceived it as such, following the triumph of
the
communist revolution. England assumed the same stance. Until the Second
World War, the United States considered it a part of China and even
brought pressures to bear on England in this connection. Following the
war, however, they saw it as a religious stronghold that could be used
against communism.

When the People’s Republic of China implemented the agrarian reform
on
Tibetan soil, the elite saw its properties and interests undermined and
opposed the measures. This led to an armed uprising in 1959. Tibet's
armed rebellion —as opposed to those in Guatemala, Cuba and other
nations, where fighting took place under truly harsh conditions— was
prepared for years by US secret services, as these studies reveal.

Another book —which essays an apology of the CIA— Mikel Dunshun's
Buddha’s Warriors, tells the story of how the agency took hundreds of
Tibetans to the United States, led and equipped the rebellion,
parachuted armaments to Tibetan fighters and trained them in their use.
The rebels moved on horseback, as Arab warriors once did. The book's
prologue was written by the Dalai Lama, who writes: “Though I am
deeply
convinced that the struggle of Tibetans will succeed only through a
long-term and peaceful process, I have always admired these freedom
fighters for their courage and their unwavering determination.”

The Dalai Lama, bestowed with the US Congress'Gold Medal, praised
George W. Bush for his efforts in defense of freedom, democracy and
human rights.

The Dalai Lama called the war in Afghanistan a war of “liberation”,
the
Korean War a war of "semi-liberation” and the Vietnam War a
“failure”.

I have summarized information taken from the Internet, from the site
Rebelión, specifically. Because of space and time limitations, I have
not included the pages where the quoted paragraphs were taken from.
There are those who suffer from Chino-phobia, a condition shared by
many
Westerners, accustomed by their education and cultural differences to
regard whatever comes from China contemptuously.

I was still virtually a child when people already spoke of a "yellow
menace". The Chinese revolution seemed impossible back then. The true
causes behind anti-Chinese sentiments were racist at root.

Why is imperialism so intent on forcing China, directly or indirectly,
to lose its international significance?

Some time ago, that is to say, 50 years ago, it sought to deny it the
prerogatives it had heroically earned for itself as a full member of
the
Security Council. Later, highlighting the mistakes that led to the
Tiananmen Square protests, it deified the Statue of Liberty, the emblem
of an empire which today embodies the negation of all freedoms.

The People’s Republic of China passed legislation which stood out in
proclaiming and enforcing respect for the rights and cultures of 55
ethnic minorities.

The People’s Republic of China is, at the same time, highly sensitive
with regards to all things related to the integrity of its territory.

The campaign orchestrated against China is like a bugle call aimed at
unleashing an attack on the country's well-earned success and against
its people, who will host the next Olympic Games.

The Cuban government issued a declaration categorically expressing its
support of China in connection with the campaign undertaken against it
on the issue of Tibet. This was the right stance to assume. China
respects the rights of its citizens to hold religious beliefs or not.
In
China, there are Muslim, Catholic and non-Catholic Christian and other
religious groups, not to mention dozens of ethnic minorities, whose
rights are guaranteed by the Chinese constitution.

In our Communist Party, one's religion does not represent an obstacle
in
the way of becoming a Party member.

I respect the Dalai Lama’s right to believe, but I am not obliged to
believe in the Dalai Lama.

I do have many reasons to believe in China's victory.

Fidel Castro Ruz
March 31, 2008
5:15 p.m.

D'habitude, je ne partage pas vos opinions sur l'avenir de la gauche notamment*. Mais je reconnais en vous un franc parler qui vous honore. Et enfin, quelqu'un qui dénonce cet acharnement suspect de Robert Menard contre la Chine. L'irruption d'une puissance non occidentale dérange bcp et sous couvert de droit de l'homme (blanc à consommer et à profiter du reste du monde), que n'entend on pas comme argument spécieux et franchement raciste quefois. D'accord avec vous concernant le Dalai lama. On aurait aimer entendre ces tenants de la morale pour la Palestine, l'Irak. Chut, on assassine en silence la bas.

Mr Mélanchon,
je lis que vous n'avez jamais été un communiste chinois, cepandant vous avez été communiste, ceci expliquerait certainement l'ignorance documentée dont vous faites preuve en comparant le Tibet à la Vendée (le Tibet originel fais cinq fois la taille de la France),
-En travestissant des faits historiques : au 19ième siècle pas moins de trois Empires se disputaient le Tibet : la Russie, la Chine et l'Angleterre ils avaient tous des relation diplomatiques avec le Gouvernement Tibétain
-En ignorant l'intéret géostratégique du lieu ou prennent leurs sources TOUS LES FLEUVES DE L'ASIE ce qui concerne 3 milliards de personnes...
-En vous en prenant au Dalai Lama qui est juste Prix Nobel de la Paix (vous ne tirez pas dans la même catégorie). A ce sujet je voudrais bien que vous m'expliquiez l'histoire du Panchen Lama... Comment se fait-il que le gouvernement de Pékin ait enlevé l'enfant reconnu par le Dalai Lama pour le remplacer par... un fils de dignitaire du partis?
Alors vous Mr Mélanchon qui vivez confortablement, avez votre blog personnel essayez de faire attention à ce que vous dites car vous n'honorez pas l'écharpe dont vous êtes ceint en proférant de pareilles choses...

POURQUOI TOUS LES TITRES DE CE BLOB SONT EN MAJUSCULES, VOUS VOULEZ QU'ON ARRETE DE LIRE OU QUOI?

CA PETE LES OEILS DE LA TETE TROP DE MAJUSCULES, APRES J'ARRIVE PLUS A REFLECHIR, J'AI L'IMPRESSION QU'ON M'ACRIE APRES, EN PLUS C'EST COMPLETEMENT CON VU QUE LE TITRE RESTE PLEIN DE JOURS DANS LES LECTEURS DE NIOUS, CA DONNE UNE MAUVAISE IMAGE DU BLOG, JE PENSE ME DESABONNER, VOUS ETES LE SEUL A LE FAIRE, MONSIEUR MELENCHON, EN FRANCAIS VULGAIRE (MAIS VOUS DEFENDEZ TOUT LE MONDE, J'EN SUIS SUR) : ON DIT CA PETE LES COUILLES GRAVES !

bien cordialement,

bravo, mille fois bravo.
Monsieur Mélenchon, vous avez du courage.
Pour oser reflechir et argumenter face à des journalistes tout-puissants,ignorants et pas très curieux du monde, il faut une bonne dose de courage. Qui, journalistes ou manifestant, a pris la peine de se renseigner sur le Tibet ? A les écouter, on se le demande.

Les français sont faciles à manipuler, il manifestent aujourd'hui pur un état religieux et féodal au Tibet, dans quelques jours, ils iront commémorer mai 68, puisque la presse leur dit de le faire. Ca ne les choquera pas, le servage pour les autres, la liberté pour nous.

Voila, c'est la première fois que je félicite un politique, pas de mon bord en plus, mais ça me fait bien plaisir.

"En vous en prenant au Dalai Lama qui est juste Prix Nobel de la Paix"

Kissinger aussi a eu le Prix Nobel, c'est dire le sérieux de ce prix politique qui ne sert qu'à recompenser les toutous de l'impérialisme américain.

Bonjour,

Tout à fait d'accord avec votre analyse, j'aimerais bien qu'on se préoccupe d'autres endroits du monde où règne la terreur initiée par les Etats unis ou la france: la Palestine, l'Irak, le Darfour.
Le conditionnement médiatique sur le Tibet, encouragé par le président de RSF (effectivement suspecté de travailler pour des causes moins nobles que celles qu'il annonce...) est insupportable dans sa dimension binaire. Mais les gens aiment ça...

Post-scriptum : pensez à proposer une version imprimable de vos textes, pour en faciliter la transmission à ceux qui ne disposent pas d'internet. Merci.

Monsieur,
D'apres le Figaro (voir extrait ci dessous), vous nous auriez livre une description eloquente de l'aspect positif de la colonialisation. Merci.

Jean-Luc Mélenchon développe ses arguments. Pour lui, «Le Tibet est chinois depuis le quatorzième siècle ». Et «parler d'invasion en 1959 pour qualifier un évènement à l'intérieur de la révolution chinoise est aberrant». Le responsable socialiste évoque la division en castes de la société tibétaine, abolie par Pékin après l'occupation de la région, ou encore les progrès accomplis en matière de scolarisation des enfants ou d'espérance de vie depuis cette date.

Bien dit, Jean-Luc ! Il s'agit de la prise de position la plus claire, nette et juste que tu aies prise depuis longtemps. Tes pauvres "amis" de la bobocratie socialiste, qu'est-ce qu'ils vont encore etre froisses... Paurvre Bertrand, pauvre Segogo, pauvre Culbuto...
Bon maintenant, ne t'arrete pas en si bon chemin : pourrais-tu prendre position contre le fascisme isralien ? Pourquoi ne traites-tu jamais de cette question, cher Jean-Luc ?...

1000 fois Bravo Monsieur Mélenchon, je commençais à me sentir bien seule : d'une part, j'ai toujours trouvé très douteuse la main mise des religieux de quelques poils qu'ils soient sur les peuples, d'autre part, il me semble bien en effet que la France s'aligne depuis quelques mois impeccablement sur les Etats-Unis ou plus exactement sur le bon vouloir de George Bush, qui ne l'oublions surtout pas, est un très grand consommateur à son profit politique de crises "vernaculaires"... Merci encore de votre intervention.

Une pétition des étudiants chinois

Dans cette campagne de désinformation des faits et de diabolisation de la Chine, nous, les étudiants chinois à l’étranger, nous sentons très mal.

Une presse qui était un modèle pour nous, pour l’avenir de la Chine, ne l’est plus. L’opinion publique n’est pas à manipuler. C’est une autre forme de censure dans “un système de presse libre”.

Et la paresse intellectuelle des français, surtout la classe politique, qui est ‘élite française, et leurs confiances absolues à la presse, ressemblant aux pas mal de chinois, nous étonne.

Une méfiance, une hostilité du peuple chinois est en train de grandir.

Le gouvernement chinois est loin d’être parfait, mais notre génération, nous, les jeunes de 20-30 ans, nous vivons depuis notre enfance pleinement l’amélioration de niveau de vie et l’évolution de la liberté en Chine.
Nous sommes étonnés, c’est au moment que tout va dans le bon sens, que nous vivons mieux qu’avant, à ce moment, qu’il y a plus de monde à l’extérieur qui veulent nous “sauver” de la “plus grande dictature du monde”…… Où étiez-vous avant?

Nous, les jeunes de Chine, les plus occidentaux de la Chine, nous avons plein de confiance en avenir. Ce gouvernement actuel, la quatrième génération depuis 1949, est arrivé au pouvoir depuis 5 ans, ils nous a convaincu avec sa volonté de changement, d’évolution. Nous avons confiance.

La Chine a une autre culture, une autre Histoire. La sociologie n’est pas une science exacte comme la mathématique, il y a trop de variables pour arriver à un “modèle universel” dans cette matière.

Les chinois évoluent, la Chine évolue, même le parti communiste évolue, les vieux conservateurs communistes sont et seront en retraite, les jeunes dirigeants sont beaucoup plus ouverts et pragmatiques. Laissons nous le temps, laissons l’évolution de la Chine à nous, les jeunes étudiants chinois à l’étranger, qui porteront les bons éléments du système occidental en Chine.

La vision de la Chine de l’extérieure devrait évoluer aussi, nous avons l’impression que le monde occidental regarde la Chine avec toujours une vision des 80s. Sauf que la Chine évoluent tellement vite, que le repère du passé a été même abandonné par les jeunes chinois.

Allez en Chine, pour voir une Chine réelle complète, pour se faire une opinion, allez au Tibet, pour constater avec vos propres yeux la “génocide culturelle”, si la langue tibétaine est en disparition, si les moines sont libre de pratiquer leur croyance, si les tibétains vivent mieux. Discutez avec les tibétains âgés, de leur inoubliable “paradis du bouddhisme”.
Oui, la Chine a beaucoup de problème, nous, les chinois, nous sommes plus confiants que jamais pour les résoudre.
Nous avons l’impression, que ce qui dérange n’est pas les problème des chinois en Chine, mais la Chine, en tant qu’une nouvelle puissance, en tant que une nation qui influence le monde, en tant qu’un pôle de pouvoir qui réclame le partage des intérêts politiques et économiques aux vielles puissances.

La Chine et sa culture est pour moi pacifique, son Histoire montre qu’elle était envahit sans cesse par les peuples extérieures, et en suite,les envahisseurs sont devenus, presque tous une partie de la Chine.

Je pense que c’est là la grandeur d’une culture de 5000 ans. Inquiétant? Peut être, mais la culture est vivante. Quand vous utilisez les baguettes dans les restaurants chinois ou asiatiques en général, la culture chinoise vous ouvre pleinement ses bras.

La diabolisation de la Chine va éloigner les chinois de l’Occident, va éloigner la distance entre les peuples.
Communiquons!

Je salue au nom des étudiants chinois en France, au nom de ma famille en Chine, le courage et la conscience de Monsieur Mélenchon!

HUANG Lina
l’Université Paris 7

Bonjour Mr Mélenchon,
je vous ai écouté avec intérêt ce matin sur Europe 1.
J'ai passé mes vacances en Chine l'an passé. Je sais donc un peu ce que veux dire une république autonome.
Beaucoup de pays devrait prendre réfléchir au bien fondé d'un tel système.
Le Tibet faisait partie des sujets de discussion avec les différents guides chinois de ce voyage
Je partage totalement vos propos de ce matin.
Dommage qu'il n y ait pas plus de gens comme vous en France.
Vous êtes rafraichissant et surtout très clair dans vos propos.
Courage.

Mr. Mélenchon,
Etes-vous seulement allé vous même au Tibet ou parlez-vous par ouï-dire ?
Manifestement, si vous y êtes allé, vous aviez les yeux fermés pour ne pas y voir l'invasion chinoise et la manière dont les tibétains sont traités. J'y suis allé moi-même en 2005 et j'en suis revenu avec la ferme conviction que la culture et le peuple tibétain étaient en train de disparaitre. Ceci va encore s'accentuer maintenant que le train Lhassa - Pékin fonctionne.
Alors, s'il vous plait, arrêtez de raconter des conneries, sous prétexte d'exister sur la scène politique française...

BRAVO
C'est tout à fait cela..
Bobby Menard déforme la réalité et se pose en défenseur de la démocratie..
INCROYABLE lui qui est un petit facho autoritaire totalement opportuniste !
Ennemi de toute justice sociale en Amérique Latine il poursuit aussi les gouvernements qui ne sont plus les valets des USA

ET EN FRANCE BALAYONS D'ABORD DEVANT NOTRE PORTE
Nous ne sommes plus le Pays des droits de l'homme
avec nos sans abris, nos sans papiers pourchassés comme les juifs à Vichy
nos injustices sociales, des étudiants sans profs, des justiciables sans justice, des soldats qui vont être sacrificiés inutilement..

ET NE NOUS LAISSONS PAS MANIPULER
GARDONS NOTRE INDIGNATION POUR LES PROBLEMES QUE NOUS VIVONS ET QUE NOUS CONNAISSONS VRAIMENT

Merci pour votre position.

On se sent vraiment seul en ce moment... abandonné par ses propres amis politiques de gauche. La Chine est un grand pays. C'est une grande culture qui a irradié tout l'extrême-orient. J'en sais quelque chose ayant des liens étroits en Corée.

Merci encore pour votre courage intellectuel.

Monsieur
merci de dire tout haut ces vérités! j'ai vécu en Chine 6 ans et ai visité l'Amdo, me suis intéressée aux tibétains, aux musulmans tant hui que ouïghours;j'ai plein d'amis chinois, qui furent dissidents ou victimes de la révolution cuturelle.
La chine a fait et fait d'énormes efforts et d'énormes progrès: on ne peut faire tout et tout de suite!
Par ailleurs attaquer aussi frontalement la Chine, sans tenir compte de l'art du "détour" qui lui est propre, c'est s'assurer recevoir en plein visage le boomerang qu'on lance: certains journalistes reçoivent des invités chinois avec arrogance et un ton trop moralisateur (ce qu'on reproche souvent de l'étranger aux français!)
tout n'est pas noir ou blanc
je constate qu'il y a en France une dictature de la pensée et beaucoup de moutons (De gaulle disait "des veaux")
une française vivant à l'étarnger